(Newly Released U.S. State Dept Documentary Proof That Richard Holbrook Gave Radovan Karadzic Immunity & Assassination Attempts on His Life) ->I don’t think these newly released State Dept. papers come anywhere close to answering Dr. Karadzic’s legal concerns
I don’t think these newly released State Dept. papers come anywhere close to answering Dr. Karadzic’s legal concerns insofar as whether:
1) an informal but genuine immunity agreement between the USA & Radovan Karadzic existed,WE CAN ALL VIEW THE GENUINE OFFICIAL RICHARD HOLBROOK POSITION AND THAT OF THE ENTIRE BILL CLINTON ADMINISTRATION WHEN IT CAME TO CUDDLING UP TO WAR CRIMINALS LIKE KLA MEMBER AND LATER ACCUSED HAGUE WAR CRIMINALS AND AL QAEDA ASSOCIATES SUCH AS. Hashim-Thaci KLA/UCK Albanian.
COME ON US STATE DEPT, YOU WILL HAVE TO DO BETTER THAN THIS PAPER TIGER PRESS RELEASE TO CONVINCE THE EDUCATED AMERICAN PUBLIC THAT HOLBROOK DID NOT MAKE SUCH AN IMMUNITY AGREEMENT AND W/ DR KARADZIC.
(AND HOW ABOUT YOU <input ... >WESLEY CLARK AND JOHN MCCAIN, WHAT IS YOUR PERSONAL POSITION ON DEALING WITH WAR CRIMINALS IN KOSOVO SENATOR SIR (?)
2) whether Richard Holbrook and associated U.S. officials at that time threatened to assassinate Dr. Karadzic and/or make him “disappear” if he did not comply with immediate demands of the US newly declassified released State Dept. reports including those Karadzic himself cites at the Hague court pressed him to immediately withdraw from further Presidential and all other political public functioning.
In my estimation there remains an entire courtroom of reasonable doubt hanging over the question remaining which is still is whether a Holbrook - Karadzic immunity agreement existed.
I strongly believe an immunity agreement agreement did in fact to exist when analyzing details of, Dr. Karadzic’s actions and speech (I MEAN LACK OF SPEECH) in my chance vacation meetings with him in 2002. I can only speak as a sociologist.
1) First and foremost, the United States (for all outward appearances), diplomatically, would not be foolish enough to get caught with their pants down so to speak in 2009 and risk the United Nations purview accusing them later in 2009 of being limp on war criminals in 1996. These newly released papers only give an outward diplomatic appearance of ‘an official U.S. stance,” and do not tell the whole story of what went on behind the scenes; I found this out when attending the 2001 UN Preparatory Commission Meetings to Establish an International Criminal Court.
2) Gary Bass in his book entitled, “Stay the Hand of Vengeance,” does a precise job of portraying Richard Holbrook as a man wavering like a weed in the wind diplomatically between prosecuting war criminals and doing a lot of backdoor diplomatic dealing with those accused of war crimes informally out of both public site and diplomatic necessity. Pg. 241 describes particularly well America’s true position on the matter in saying,
“The America and European delegations came together to pressure the Bosnians, a process Sacirbey, then Bosnian’s foreign minister, describes as “kind of like pissing on each other’s hands and saying we’re cleansing our hands.”
PLUS, look at the Albright with war criminal Hasim Taci above in Kosovo and also <input ... >Wesley Clark.
It is common knowledge to US official foreign service employees that once hired and working as an official US Representative in military and/or diplomatic capacity, you cannot take on your own personal opinions as to whether to shake hands with Mladic, Karadzic and/or Taci.
An official employee of the USA must follow the “Official Position” of their country of origin. IT IS OBVIOUS IN THE CASE OF THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, ITS OFFICIAL EMPLOYEES AT THAT TIME LIKE WESLEY CLARK AND ALBRIGHT WHOM BOTH TOOK ON THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATIONS OFFICIAL USA POSITION THEN, WHICH WAS IT WAS ALRIGHT TO HANG-OUT WITH AL QAEDA AND KLA WAR CRIMINALS. AND TO ACCEPT CAMPAIGN CONTRINUTIONS FROM THEM ALSO AS I HAVE SHOWN IN OPENSECRETS PAC MONEY MANIFESTATIONS.
Also, what about Karadzic’s accusations he fears his life because of assassination threats emanating from Holbrook threats he had better withdrawal at once from political public life (?)
I for one will not be forced fed what I consider strongly Holbrook’s load of lying crap. I’ve been around enough UN diplomats to understand the true meaning of what I read below in the newly released US State dept. papers.
So I ask you, Richard Holbrook–>>>> Are you saying to the American public, in the same way the American public asked Bill Clinton whether he was lying when he said “I didn’t have sex with that women,” that you never pressured Dr Karadzic with any assassination and/or did you ever Richard holbrook ever threaten to withdrawl American protection from Dr karadzic if he did not at once comply with your demands that he immediately withdrawl from political public life (?)
In your own departmental papers below it states under no uncertain terms to me that then Bosnian President Izetbegovic threatened to force Dr Karadzic into resignation if he did not comply with the demands from US, you and Izetbegovic using “other means than diplomatic.” THAT SOUNDS LIKE AN EXTREMELY UNFRIENDLY ACT MR. HOLBROOK—It sounds like you directly told Dr. Karadizc he would get a bullet in the head otherwise.
LUNCH BREAK IS OVER:
And Richard Holrbook, I ask you (since you were there and I was not), exactly what did page 1 of 3 below of this paper ‘ really mean’ (?)
Exactly what type of actions was it you all seemed to agree “we will support it” that was going to be undertaken against Dr Karadzic had he not complied to withdraw from public political office at once (?) It is obvious the type of action you all present were prepared to take against Dr karadzic; you were going to assassinate him (!)
This is the true reason for which you and others in official US diplomat capacity refuse taking a stand at the Hague in a WITNESS SEAT (!)
Isn’t this true Mr Holbrook (?)
Now let’s continue with page 1. The next sentence reads Holrbok that “PRESSURE ON...”
You insist that you are some type of good will ’saint’ with wings on your feet and a some moral American halo on your head huh (?)
You expect us to believe that you would be willing to participate in an assassination attempt against Dr Karadzic for non compliance of your ‘agreement’,
we are all supposed to applaud you in America, for your pressuring “Beograd” in particular, Slobodan Milosevic, (someone himself later accused of being a war criminal by you and the Hague ICTY –but useful to you at that time for implementing the Dayton Accords forward) to bring Karadzic & Mladic to the Hague at some non existent date later in time huh Holbrook(?)
Yeah right Holbrook (!) HA HA HA.
I don’t believe your crap Holbrook and beg to prove you a liar!!
Now Mr. Holbrook, the 5 million dollar question is what did you explicitly mean by what you stated above in your own interview on the topic of what would happen to Dr Karadzic IF he were to resurface in the public political sphere of things in the future(?)
Holbrook , just what exactly did you “make clear” to Ambassador Frowick, Richard (?) It is obvious to me in meeting Dr Karadzic on several occasions in 2002, he was obviously making a very specific effort NOT TO SPEAK WHEN HE REALLY WANTED TO (!)
After all, Mladic had plenty to say, and, Dr Karadzic is not the shy type when it came to speaking out in bars about NATO’s actions against Serbia and suffering Serbs in Kosovo and throughout history.
Dr Karadzic was making a deliberate effort NOT to speak with me directly and/or outwardly because he was trying to keep an agreement to withdraw himself from public life to the point Dr Karadzic KNEW he would be assassinated by you using Izetbegovic and what was left of his evil influences in Bosnia, otherwise, if he did not comply with every bit if your agreement (!)
This is the truth Richard, isn’t it (?) Sorry if I have to put the truth in your mouth (!) I dare you to deny this, Richard(!) Do you deny what I infer here about you Richard (?) The American public awaits your truthful answer. While we wait, we all continue viewing the true American stance you took on these newly unclassified documents as the next thing you decide to do is to congratulate yourself and everyone else involved in the threatening, Dr Karadzic’s life.
I really do have to thank the Bosniak Conference of what is it...Oh yeah “North America” for making these documents free on their website; ; thanks guys.
Now view part of the documentary evidence immediately following and begin getting to the crux of the matter as to whether judicial verdicts can be bought sold and are otherwise concluded at the Hague by what I refer to by “means other than genuine social justice and facts.”
It seems Holbrook agrees with me that this is possible because he clearly states above he feels official US pressure and funding or with holding funding from the Hague in some manner, or something that he can do in an official capacity can make the Hague “disappear from Dr Karadzic’s life,” as we clearly read view the damning evidence against the Hague above. It seems these newly emergent documents back up my testimony against the Hague as being a corrupt institution as just read. Unless, of course Richard Holbrook was going to take some illegal action on his own accord to make the Hague disappear as indicated in his own statements.
The next portion of these documents really stands out and grabs my attention because as read above, I attest to the fact, Dr karadzic’s actions when I met him in Beograd with Darko several times in 2002 in my own mind leaves no room to doubt as a sociologist (a international sociological honor student), Dr Karadzic definitely acted as if he was indeed being closely monitored for his public political actions and speech.
Now we all know the United States of America has never been a Hague enthusiast. The USA still reserves the ‘right’ and has ‘reservations ‘not to have its own nationals tried there for war crimes even though Clinton endorsed it.
The part of the document immediately
following NEITHER manifests in any manner neither Holbrook’s nor the
official USA position on
prosecuting anyone accused of war crimes. It only states the UN SECURITY COUNCIL endorsed that opinion (June 23rd 1996). It does NOT suggest Holbrook endorsed the idea and the evidence shows contrary.
The bombing of Kosovo in 1999 also makes manifest whereby, the USA although present in UN Security Council meetings, neither endorses nor follows its opinions.
In the posts of these documents following, the White House has removed the names of the people making the political statements; obviously these documents are only partially ‘declassified.”
However, they clearly manifest, at least from Richard Holbrook’s perspective, he was not going to take additional steps to see the prosecution of, Dr. Karadzic, at the Hague in the future. Only he can testify as a witness at the Hague War Crimes tribunal as to what exactly he meant by what we are reading above. But in a criminal matters in America before court in concluding Mens Rea beyond reasonable doubt we observe the evidence introduced, then making logical conclusions.
We can also conclude by the diplomatic *ullshit following in these documents that our own American government, as it always has, tells the American public one thing, but behind diplomatic doors does an entire other.
Exemplary of what I mean follows because we CAN NOT read the name of the exact ‘American Diplomat’ whose name is removed for obvious reasons making the following statement outwardly, employing diplomatic overtones suggesting the US comply with the Hague in the future although in their last breath said on the former page they could not care less about prosecuting war criminals at all.
Next we read whereby the Clinton administration employed United States taxpayer money. These documents prove beyond a shadow of doubt all about President Obama’s unwise choosing Hillary Clinton as his newly appointed, Secretary of State in America and she ran her campaign largely based upon her experiences in diplomacy learned directly from husband and former US President, Bill Clinton. Look at the Clinton’s opinion on holding free and true democratic elections in the former Yugoslavia in these newly unclassified documents; I myself am shocked!
And as to the further question of the day as to whether there will be “future Holbrook missions,” I can strongly suggest that the entire world “hope not!” And if I were President Oobama I would force both Richard Holbrook and Hillary Clinton into an early retirement over this mess.
Gee, and I was told that I actually failed the foreign service test in America last summer when I took it(?) LOL. Gee even I would make a better Secretary of State and diplomat than either Hillary and/or Holbrook.
*hit! Now we all have “serious concerns” and have to wonder about the American President’s true stance insofar as Iran goes when we read a comment like this->
Then we read this...
Hey wait ! This ought to be my line! This is why I went to Serbia and Montenegro in Mid-August (LOL), to investigate. Since there is so much seemingly dry humor involved in these documents, I could not resist adding my own LOL.
Everything surrounding European, NATO, UN and associated American relations/actions with respects to the wars that occurred in the former Yugoslavia is highly suspect in my estimation.
One wonders why, if Ratko Mladic was surrounded by strongly armed bodyguards of about 50 men as was testified to in a Belgrade court last week (and we can see the size of this man-huge and a self-admitted former bodyguard of Mr. Mladic) one must also wonder why either Karadzic and/or Mladic would get near me; I am a war crimes investigator; and I am an American citizen of former Jewish decent.
Why did so many other war crimes investigators seemingly end up bullied and/or dead in their investigations in this affair (?)
I conclude that both Mr Mladic and Mr Karadzic knew my intentions in collecting evidence in the war crimes cases of the former Yugoslavia was genuine. I also conclude both men are innocent and they wanted someone to genuinely investigate the allegations of war crimes against them with genuine intentions because both men firmly believed a true war crimes investigation would expose the truth that they are innocent and wrongly accused.
I think both Mladic and Karadzic knew other investigators associated with the Hague and American were two faced liars like Holbrook etc, and would be present to merely collect monetary bounties and/or for unethical diplomatic reasons meant to purely demonize them. I yet have an answer to this question; only they know what they thought.
Anyway, my reading these documents is almost concluded.
Next, we read contradictory statements that since they DID NOT come from Dr Karadzic himself, make us wonder if they are true at all. Why (?) Because in the first sentence it indicates Dr. Karadzic felt a total lack of security. If the first sentence is true, how could the next sentence be true because it read that Dr Karadzic “never really felt seriously like his life was threatened.” Which is it (?) The man is a doctor of psychiatry either he felt his life was in danger or he did not feel this way. I do NOT believe he was ambivalent about his life in feeling both ways (!) Only he can answer this question.
What is logical however to conclude is that if Dr. Karadzic genuinely felt he would spend his remaining days reading Russian authors, he must have truly had some immunity arrangement behind closed doors with Holbrook.
Next, as a sociologist, I conclude that yes, Dr. Karadzic felt very strongly about not leaving Republika Srpska in Bosnia.
But as a logical man himself, and, since he eventually did leave RS, something must have seriously pressured to do so.
I know no other threat but someone threatening his life physically, as he claims Richard Holbrook did (with assassination), that could have possibly made Dr Karadzic reconsider and leave RS for Serbia. read below please->
Reading additional portions of these documents we still are in the same conversation about Dr. Karadzic remaining in RS area. It is UNCLEAR but highly suspect as to what was meant in “carrying out attacks.” It seems to me clear perhaps this meant attacks against Dr. Karadzic’s life. I do not know what it really meant because everything is contradictory in diplomacy and its doublespeak.
Next, yes I agree what we read is indeed “odd observations” because I have known in friendship some of Dr. Karadzic’s close associates and I have never heard any such comments even remotely resembling these; I seriously doubt there sincerity. For whatever it is worth the papers read->
Now we read the most damning statements of all for Holbrook. It is clearly indicated below that, sure, Dr. Karadzic did have a deal on the table in which Holbrook offers him immunity from Hague prosecution and he could live in Montenegro if he agrees to this before he left the Balkans for America. I WISH SOMEONE WOULD OFFER ME THIS DEAL.
CLEARLY EITHER RICHARD HOLBROOK IS A LIAR OR BI-POLAR (!) We can see this in the next sentence of these documents in which it clearly states Holbrook admits Dr. Karadzic living in Montenegro is a great suggestion->:
is the end of the papers. I will say that I have always told Darko, and
I told him this immediately before I left Beograd in 2002 to return
from my visit to Serbia and Montenegro, I always told him:
“Darko, if you and your country ever needs my testimony at the Hague in the future to attest to what I have witnessed, I will always be there.” Darko replied, “Thank you Jill, we’ll see when and if that day comes.”
Unclassified State Department Documents Refute Karadzic Claims
July 1, 2009
The State Department on June 25 announced it would make public documents pertaining to new accusations by Radovan Karadzic, the indicted Serbian war leader, that the U.S. government and specifically U.S. Ambassador Richard Holbrooke had promised him immunity from prosecution for war crimes during the Bosnian war (1992-1995) if he would withdraw from public life.
The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in 1995 indicted Karadzic for war crimes, including charges that his forces killed at least 7,500 Bosniak men and boys from Srebrenica in 1995 as part of an ethnic cleansing campaign against the Bosniak and Bosnian Croat population. A year after his indictment, Karadzic stepped down as president of the Serbian Democratic Party (SDS) and went into hiding. Serbian authorities arrested Karadzic in 2008 - nearly 13 years after being on the run.
Karadzic on May 25, 2009 filed a motion entitled “Holbrooke Agreement Motion” before the ITCY arguing that his indictment should be dismissed on the grounds that the U.S. government had offered him a “quid pro quo.” The State Department’s newly released documents show that the U.S. government repeatedly made clear that it expected Karadzic to be tried at The Hague, even following his agreement to retire from public life. Link to State Department Press Release.
Upon learning of the new documents, USIP vice president Daniel Serwer said “I am delighted to see these documents, which clarify the US Government’s position in 1996 and refute Karadzic’s “immunity” claims.”
DEF-09-0001.pdf (PDF/370.56 KB)
DEF-09-0002.pdf (PDF/1.03 MB)
DEF-09-0003.pdf (PDF/1.43 MB)
DEF-09-0004.pdf (PDF/782.74 KB)
DEF-09-0005.pdf (PDF/634.5 KB)
DEF-09-0006.pdf (PDF/279.8 KB)
DEF-09-0007.pdf (PDF/609 KB)
DEF-09-0008.pdf (PDF/640.23 KB)